I thought I got a lot of comments here for my post Random Stop? until I saw the debate that it provoked on the Chatham County BBS (thanks to Esbee for the tip). The site’s administrator Gene Galin posted my piece on the BB and it provoked a whole bunch of comments, and I think it’s a good debate that provides a look into the various viewpoints on illegal immigration and how we as a society are dealing with it.
Some of the comments pointed out that I was probably in Alamance County and not Chatham County and I think they’re right. I’m not real familiar with that area but I do know where I was in relation to I-40 and upon further inspection it does seem I was in Alamance. The importance of that detail in the overall debate was highlighted in a post by "belle" that references an article in the Raleigh News & Observer pointing out that Alamance County’s sheriff has been involved longer than any other sheriff in North Carolina in the federal program that provides funding for identifying illegal immigrants that have been arrested for other crimes. Alamance has had 434 illegal immigrants deported, 64 of whom had been arrested for felonies and 302 for traffic stops.
One of the main questions in my original post was whether or not the feds meant for these funds to be used in this way. Typically the federal government has not looked kindly on state and local agencies infringing on their territory and I was wondering if the folks at ICE would be happy with this kind of operation.
A second issue that I didn’t articulate well, but came out in the comments, is whether or not it’s a good idea to have traffic stops to identify illegal aliens. The problem is that there are plenty of Hispanic folks in this country who are here legally and it’s not fair to them to be pulled over and have their residency status checked. The point is that if you’re going to pull over Hispanics to check status, then you should pull over everyone since there are plenty of illegal immigrants from non-Hispanic countries.
The police routinely set up roadblocks for a variety of reasons. Drunk driving checkpoints on New Years Eve, checks of inspection stickers, checks of registration, etc. No one likes them but I think we all understand them and live with them because we’re all subjected to them. In my original post I wrote that you could very well say that the checkpoint I drove through was set up for that purpose, and maybe it was. What seemed off to me was that there were lots of cars pulled to the side when we passed and they were all driven by Hispanics. It also seemed strange that the sheriff barely glanced at my ID, in fact he never even got close enough to take it out of my hand, and that he didn’t appear to look at my stickers or plates. I suspect that if I hadn’t been a middle aged white guy with a family, but rather had been a middle aged Hispanic guy with a family I would have been scrutinized much more carefully.
Lots of issues here that are important: illegal immigration, due process, civil rights and state rights among them. No easy answers, but then there never are for the truly important things in life.
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Befuddled 
Your jumping to a conclusion here with your ‘claim’ that your ID was ‘glossed over’ and “lots of cars pulled to the side when we passed and they were all driven by Hispanics.” Purely anectdotal as you have no data or pictures to prove your agenda. Fact of the matter is, whenever a car is pulled over or contact with any law enforcement oddicial occurs, they should be asking where that person was born. If their origination was foreign, their immigration status should be questioned. You can thank all the invaders (20 million or more) for the need for that.
Zeezil,
I’ve said throughout both posts that I have no proof of anything, rather these are suspicions. You’re right that I’m assuming that my ID was glossed over, but if a sheriff’s deputy can carefully inspect my ID from five feet away while I roll by at about five miles an hour then perhaps he has the best eyesight in the United States. In other words it’s a pretty safe assumption.
As for not having proof via pictures or data, well you’ve got me there. On the other hand I’ve merely relayed what I saw, haven’t levied charges against anyone or in any way taken action. I’ve merely shared an opinion which last time I checked is a very American thing to do.
As for the contention that every who’s stopped should be ready to prove legal status, then I guess we all need to make sure we carry our passports or birth certificates. Drivers licenses don’t prove citizenship, so that won’t suffice. Personally I don’t want to have to do that.
Jon, That’s what 287(g) is intended to do , use of fed money by a local law enforcement agency that complies with the requirements of the program , like a facility large enough to house the violators and training to handle roadside encounters to ensure professionalism in many other facets of the issue.
Jon said… “The problem is that there are plenty of Hispanic folks in this country who are here legally and it’s not fair to them to be pulled over and have their residency status checked.”
I have spoken to Hispanics here who tell me that 70 % of people here from Mexico are illegals.That having been said , less than 1% of registered voters in Guilford County are Hispanic.
There are people in the triad who own businesses and are not here legally. The problem is much more serious than most realize. Just from a humanitarian stance we need to identify these people and at least give them an identity while they await deportation or the long road to citizenship. The deportation of 12-15 million people hardly seems like the only answer.
They don’t have to be victimized by their own unscrupulous countrymen, nor anyone else willing to abuse people because of their choice to come here for work or to be with family members . Because of our discomfort with talking about matters of law when they involve a particular group they are constantly in a state of fear.
This issue of immigration in N.C. does not have to become the new race card ,to be used for political fodder,please help by not encouraging its use. Work for a solution by not throwing rocks at those who are involved in the process on either side of the badge.
Thanks for the comment Joe. My understanding of 287g was that it was intended to be used for identifying illegal aliens that were already in custody for other offenses, and not to be used to go out and in a proactive manner identify illegal aliens to be deported. What I’ve been asking about the program is if the Feds are comfortable with the traffic stops. If they have no problem with the stops, and they find that they fall within the bounds of the programs rules then so be it.
On the other hand I don’t like the idea of profiling. If I’m one of the 30% of Mexicans that is legal (borrowing from your numbers here) I’d be pretty ticked if I had to worry about being pulled over every time I drove to church, the store, work, etc.
Also, you make an excellent point that deportation is not the only answer. Bush’s immigration reform proposal was hammered as “amnesty” and died a fairly spectacular death, but it offered a more realistic answer than the option of rounding up and deporting everyone.
I’ve tried to be very careful and say that these were my observations and that I had no proof that what I observed was anything other than a traffic stop that could have been to check for drunk drivers, or expired inspection stickers or something like that, BUT it sure seemed strange that everyone pulled over was Hispanic and that they didn’t check my ID out thoroughly at all. That’s a legit observation and opinion and not an accusation.
By sharing my observation and my opinion I opened the door for people to draw their own conclusions. Some, like Esbee, saw an instance of racial profiling and provided some legitimate arguments for why that’s a bad thing. Others saw it as law enforcement doing what they should be doing, and although I might not agree with some of their reasoning they make the legitimate point that by definition being in the country illegally is, well, illegal. Some also have the opinion that being inconvenienced by traffic stops is OK if that’s what it takes to find and deport illegals. That’s also a legitimate opinion, although it’s not one I share.
What I’m trying to say is that I don’t think I’ve thrown stones at law enforcement. I think I asked some questions based on a personal experience and that provided an avenue for people to make their own observations and share their own opinions. In my mind that’s America at its best.
Immigration reform is a complicated issue with no easy or quick answers. Open debates like what we have here will hopefully help, and you’re right that it helps no one to indiscriminately throw accusations at law enforcement. On the other hand it is perfectly legit to air an opinion as I have, and to share first hand observations.
Thank you Jon for opening this dialog,I feel we haven’t heard the last of it.
Beginning in September it will prove interesting to see who is willing to handle this hot button issue when votes are on the line.
I think we have heard enough rhetoric and it’s time to start asking the tough questions of those that seek to lead and govern this Country and this State.
I hope it will stay on the blogs and other media outlets as these people deserve to be treated fairly,while keeping with the rule of law.
I appreciate your candor and patience with me as I am a still somewhat of a newcomer to blogging.
You sir, are obviously a gentleman and a scholar,I shall try to keep up the pace in the future.